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Helping Hackers - Take another look at how you turn your shoulders    Back to Topics  Page: 1 of 4     

From: RonaldReaganConservative (1 of 31)   11/3/2009 5:36:46 AM
To:
The correct shoulder move is closer to a down/up left shoulder move instead of around and this is often over looked by your teaching pro. Here is the test to see if you are turning your shoulders correctly: Get into your golf posture and put your fists (no club) together with your elbows pointing straight forward and back and your hands about a foot out from your chest. Now make your normal golf turn back. IF your back elbow crosses your body instead of staying out in front, you are turning around yourself and you can expect lots of pushes and hooks.
This correct shoulder move can be done two ways: Take the club straight back with your arms and the shoulders will follow or the hardest way: Turn your left shoulder down. This is much harder and if you've been turning the left shoulder around, its going to seem weird. Even the arm action will be different as turning the shoulder around lets the left arm go over the right sooner and the right arm will bend sooner.
I posted this before but it got hijacked into a discussion about grip pressure. Let's keep it on shoulder move.

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From: ILL Phivey (2 of 31)   11/3/2009 6:26:41 AM
To: RonaldReaganConservative In response to Post 1
Back giving terrible advice again huh 90 shooter. Where is that Pickle guy that hated you so bad when we need him

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From: RonaldReaganConservative (3 of 31)   11/3/2009 6:36:05 AM
To: ILL Phivey In response to Post 2
I have an idea who you think you are writing about. I do not live in California. If you don't have anything to add about the topic, please stay out. You and your ilk are making these boards miserable.

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From: ILL Phivey (4 of 31)   11/3/2009 5:34:05 PM
To: RonaldReaganConservative In response to Post 3
Why is it again you feel the need to tell people how they should play golf mr 90 shooter.

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From: RonaldReaganConservative (5 of 31)   11/3/2009 5:47:17 PM
To: ILL Phivey In response to Post 4
You must think I'm Larry. Do some investigation work dummy. Find out for yourself that I am not he.

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From: guru4u (6 of 31)   11/3/2009 9:14:52 PM
To: RonaldReaganConservative In response to Post 1
I can't go with you on this idea of the up/down vs. around movement of the shoulders, at least on the backswing side. If you bow over too much in your address posture, the shoulders must work like a rocking chair ... up and down. If you stand too erect at address, your shoulders will turn too flat.

From a correct posture, you should turn more than rock ... http://craftsmithgolf.com/Posture.htm . The left shoulder should move backwards more than downward. The sequence of the backswing is also important. The hands should lead the shoulders AND the shaft in the "one piece takeaway". To be clear, the one piece takeaway is characterized by the clubhead, handle and chest all moving as a single unit. This straight line relationship you establish at takeaway will be recreated in the early followthru. These three parts obviously move different distances and at different speeds, but they move as a single unit.

The power for the takeaway comes from the the hands moving the handle. In this role, the wrists must be firm, not floppy ... soft fingers, firm wrists. There should be a straight line relationship from the center of your chest, through the hands down to the clubhead until the hands pass your back knee. I prefer to see a player using BOTH hands to move the handle back. The left hand pushes and the right hand pulls. Using both hands produces counterbalancing forces acting on the handle. This reduces the tendency to roll the hands either over or under the shaft and to move the club on either an inside or outside swingpath.

The hands are the prime mover of the club on the backswing up to the 3/4 upswing position. The sequence of the backswing movement is hands, shoulders, hips ... the reverse of the foreward swing sequence. I strongly believe in a delayed wrist cock up to this 3/4 backswing position. There are multiple benefits to using a delayed wrist cock ... full weight transfer, full shoulder turn, no overswing etal. There are 5 checkpoints for the upswing position ... nose on the ball, weight transferred onto the back foot, shoulders fully turned, right elbow pointing down and connected grip.

The tranisition consists of three movements ... cock, bump and drop. The foreswing consists of hold and throw. While this may sound complicated, it really amounts to nothing more than learning refinements to your basic whole swing motion and to adapting your motion to your individual needs. In simple terms, swing the handle up over your back shoulder and then sling it down, thru and up over your front shoulder.

My focus is on the movement and position of the handle. The handle is your ONLY point of control over the club and your strongest point of feel for what's going on in the swing. What the handle is doing is an excellent teacher!

Edited 11/3/2009 9:19:00 PM by guru4u

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From: RonaldReaganConservative (7 of 31)   11/4/2009 5:32:22 AM
To: guru4u In response to Post 6
Good post. Lots to think about there. I have the opportunity to watch and play with guys that were on the tour briefly and I study their shoulder move take away. Its hard to tell if they are thinking; 'turn the shoulder back or take everything back with the hands. I'll talk to my teaching pro this morning.

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From: Jar. (8 of 31)   11/4/2009 5:41:10 AM
To: RonaldReaganConservative In response to Post 7
It is my belief that many good players do not think about 'which hand' or'how should the shoulder go'. If they have swing thoughts, they tend to be more about the club and where/how it goes. There was a recent Golf magazine article about research and it talked about the effectiveness of thinking about external (club, ball, etc) rather than internal (arm, hand, shoulder, etc) factors.

Perhaps the article is still available on line. It would be something you should review as you are analytical about the swing but may be able to make things more repeatable with slightly different perspectives.

Personally, I believe the next advance in golf instruction that will be meaningful is to understand how people can learn golf the most effectively rather than which way to crank their shoulders or push/pull one of their arms.


EDIT: Here is the link:

http://www.golf.com/golf/instruction/article/0,28136,1913844-2,00.html#

Edited 11/4/2009 5:52:00 AM by Jar.

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From: joro-39 (9 of 31)   11/4/2009 5:57:32 AM
To: Jar. In response to Post 8
There are two views of the takeaway and that is that it is a shoulder and body turn, the other is that it is an arm takeaway with the body and shoulders following.

I used to think it was the upper body, but now I believe it is the arms with the body following, just like the down and thru swing.

To each his own, one thing for sure though, it is not very complicated.

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From: RonaldReaganConservative (10 of 31)   11/4/2009 6:26:37 AM
To: Jar. In response to Post 8
Thanks for the post and link. I printed that article and will study it. My problems come from turning my shoulders incorrectly and I'll bet there are many others doing this. I see them at my club so I know it's pretty common. Here is how to feel the wrong way:

Get into golf swing posture, and without a club hold your arms straight out at chin level with hands one on top of the other and elbows pointing forward and back. Your hands will be about 10 inches from your chin. Now, from there you can turn your top so that the elbows go almost horizontal around you or you can turn in such a manner where the back elbow goes up and everything stays in front. I used to play golf with the first method. Its easy to get a full shoulder turn, but this move distorts how the arms and hips move too. I think the second way is correct but let's hear what some of you say.




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